Opinion: The SAPC Chat Of 13 May – by Lunah Eir

41-54-celticpentagramstickerThis article is an opinion piece about the debate held on the SA Pagan Council group on Facebook regarding Vampyrism and Satanism in regards to Pagan religion in South Africa. My first instinct was to do research about the religions and groups involved. I believe, as with everything in life, you cannot do it properly if you don’t know what you’re talking about – which perhaps, proves the point of the debate itself. I set out to try to absorb as much information as I could on Paganism and Satanism.

….. And then I picked up the transcript of the debate.

Within the first ten pages or so, I realized that it was all unnecessary. The research was not going to be of any help to me at all, and all that was needed in order for me to write this article, was to listen to what the people were saying.  To really read between the lines.

Going by what was said in the debate, there were a few things that  happened in the past between various groups and even between members of the same groups which have caused a lot of heartache and pain, even jealousy and animosity, and I picked up on that a lot.

In my opinion, it’s one of the reasons why the debate was such a good idea, so that those that had something weighing on their minds could open up and bare all, discuss and argue it with the fellow members of the discussion and move forward. This occurred many times and the outcome was always positive, with the two opposing parties remaining respectful and in most cases working through their issues. It was also a pleasure to read how beautifully everyone greeted one another before signing off.

I also noticed that a lot of the debate time was spent on discussing Satanism and vampyrism being involved with Pagan ways, with a bit of Christianity thrown in here and there. Some comments were a little perturbing to me, because I am of vampyric nature and a Christian, and I felt that maybe the people making the comments didn’t quite know as much as they should have about the topic. Nonetheless, it seems that there is still some concern regarding this matter.

It’s really, really simple.

Starting with the facts: Satanism and Paganism are religions – different religions with different beliefs, ways of life, thinking and values, as with every other belief system, but they are RELIGIONS nonetheless. They are ways of life we as individuals choose to follow; we make conscious decisions on who we will pray to, what we believe and what communities we will join. We stand up for our beliefs, be it Christian, Buddhism, Hinduism, Paganism or Satanism. Therefore Paganism and Satanism cannot be compared or linked together in the sense of whose belief is “better” or “more right than”.

However, vampyrism is what most Vampyres consider to be a condition, a state of being determined by heritage, something we are born with. This I think, I am able to compare to being born gay or lesbian, or with a disability, being born a genius or with eleven toes. It is not a choice. Full stop. It is who you are, in every cell of your body, mind and soul – whether you like it not and not something you wake up one day and decide to be.

Having said this, and as it was mentioned by certain individuals in the debate, that Pagans as a whole should not be turning away vampyric Pagans. This is unfair discrimination and contradictory to what Pagans are supposed to stand for.

Another issue that arose was the differences between Pagans, which almost made me want to say, “Girls! Girls! You’re both pretty!” In the hard times we find ourselves in today, being judged for looking different or believing in different gods, with so many people not appreciating Paganism for what it is, and putting its believers on the proverbial “whipping post”, this is not a time for squabbling. These two groups should be standing together, finding mutual ground and together fighting for what they believe in.

It shouldn’t matter what ones opinion is of the other, or how one dislikes how the other runs things, what matters here is that you respect one another as fellow followers, these groups should unite and TOGETHER fight all the diversity and fight for what they believe in and the right to do so.

On a much more positive note, once the topic was changed to community building, it was amazing and so delightful to see how everyone came together. In my opinion a definite highlight of this discussion.

Now if we could only respect our neighbors and stand together like this in every way of life, the world we live in would be a much happier place.


About Octarine Valur

Octarine Valur - Founder: House Valur, South African Vampyre Community, South African Vampi(y)re Alliance (SAVA), SA Vampyre news (SAVN). View all posts by Octarine Valur

3 responses to “Opinion: The SAPC Chat Of 13 May – by Lunah Eir

  • JP Vanir

    of course Pagan is an umbrella term but even Satanist have different denominations or types such as atheistic, Theistic (Spiritual Satanism), Luciferianism, ect as do Christians (over 200 or so last I checked) so no one general Religion is absolute. Many Pagans as well as Satanists pefer to be eclectic (and or Spititual as apposed to Religious) and remain open minded and not so close minded. Also There are Vampires/Vampyres who see there Vampirism/Vampyrism as Spiritual as well as there condition even though as you said most definitely do not there are still many who do…

  • Reasononing

    Reading this article one can clearly tell the person writing is fairly new to this and the whole religion thing, which begs the question, how can somebody this inexperienced be trying to fill such big shoes and taking on such an age old debate. Bottom line is no one will ever win and it will always be a debate whether at a party, on a forum, or wherever. Yet the biggest hypocrisy has to come from this writer, everyone should respect each others beliefs, but to mention a religion from any of the books and vampyre in same sentence is diabolical, first chapter of any of the books of God clearly outlines what has been provided for you from the earth as food and sustenance, water, fruit from trees, and livestock etc, a beautiful master plan that could only have come from the highest spiritual force, and I’m sorry but no where does it say “and I have provided for you fellow human beings to feed on”. We should all respect each others beliefs, as I respect someone being a vampyre or pagan, etc, but to say you’re a vampyre and a true believing christian is just an antagonistic statement in every way, God has made the body in beautiful form, each organ working in beautiful harmony with each other, for example the mouth, the teeth, the tongue, the esophagus (oesophagus, commonly known as the gullet), and then to the stomach and then out you know where, a beautiful design for the most simplest of necessities. Yet here we are insulting such a beautiful design reckoning that the way to feed is by consuming another human beings blood or energy. And if this Lunah Eir has claimed to have been born a vampyre, then he or she should clearly inform their mother, clearly being born a vampyre must mean your mother is one of some sorts, and yet when born and being a vampyre baby he or she somehow fed on breast milk I assume, or some sort of milk, and purity foods (he he) like the rest of little babies do, and yet made it through without the aid of energy or blood from any other human being? This is by no means an attack on the person reading the article, but more on why such an article was allowed to (eir). One would clearly expect such a heated topic and debate to be taken on by an experienced professor of religions and history or of some sorts, yet judging by previous articles of the same writer it seems to have been written by a young person who clearly watched too many Twilight sagas. But given that, was a good yet disturbing read.

    • Octarine Valur

      Dear “Reasononing” (sic),

      This article was written to provide an impartial viewpoint – that being by a Christian participant in the VC giving her personal opinion about a divide in the local Pagan community and it’s root misunderstandings. Were the author a Pagan, it would have created the impression of bias.

      You say: “We should all respect each others beliefs, as I respect someone being a vampyre or pagan, etc, but to say you’re a vampyre and a true believing christian is just an antagonistic statement in every way…” – in this case you have just denied that someone can be both a Vampyre AND a Christian, while Vampyres currently identify with every other religion in the world – which seems just fine with you.

      Your comments demonstrate anything BUT impartiality, in fact they reflect an attempt to insult the writer on the basis of her chosen religion (Christianity) and her nature (being vampyric) – two aspects of a person which are actually independent from each other, since one is a choice, and the other not. This would appear to be an attempt to preclude someone from identifying with Christianity on the basis of birth or nature. In fact, your comments reflect little but a clever-dick attempt at shrouding your contempt for the writer and Vampyres in general in florid and facetious virtue slightly shallower than a foot bath.

      I suggest that you take your own advice and practice the “respect for others beliefs” you touted here, while considering that, apparently, “God” made the anal sphincter as well.


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